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April 15th, 2023 
Awake Goy “For Pfizer … total contracts of the European Union was 72 billion euros to buy vaccines. They bought 10 vaccines for every person in the European Union. So, it’s a huge amount of taxpayers’ money.”
I sit down with Rob Roos, a Dutch member of the European Parliament. Roos made global headlines after he got a Pfizer executive to publicly admit that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine was never tested for stopping transmission of the virus.
“At that moment, I realized this is a game changer,” says Roos. “We put it online and it was crazy. It went so far off, because everyone in the Western world—I can speak for them, I think—had the feeling they were fooled, really fooled by their governments. And that’s not what governments should do. They’re chosen to serve the people. But they fooled the people. It was a false narrative.”
Roos says that media attempts to frame him as a purveyor of “misinformation” and the counter-argument that Pfizer had never claimed that the vaccine was tested on stopping transmission is mere gaslighting.
“That was not my argument,” says Roos. “My argument was that our governments said that. But [Pfizer CEO] Mr. Bourla could have said to our governments, ‘Listen, we didn’t test it on that. You better not push people to these vaccines with that argument.’ He didn’t do that because there’s a lot of money involved, of course.”
We discuss the response to the pandemic in the Netherlands and in Europe, and why Roos believes common sense should prevail over official guidelines when liberty is at stake.
“It’s a dangerous situation, because now it’s the vaccine. What’s the next time?” Roos asks.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek:
Rob Roos, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
Rob Roos:
A pleasure to be here.
Mr. Jekielek:
Rob, you made history a while back by getting a Pfizer representative to agree that the company never tested for transmission of the virus in the creation of the vaccine. I remember this clip very well, and it was seen over 13 million times. Before we go there, who is Rob Roos? How did he become a politician?
Mr. Roos:
Yes, this was never meant to be. I was a businessman, an entrepreneur, and I had my own companies. I founded a lot of companies, and I bought companies. I’ve merged them and I’ve seen it all. I’ve done it all. There was a certain moment where I was repeating myself in this game. Money was never a goal for me. I believed in things and I love to achieve things. It was passion and love, that was my motivation.
I had an engineering company in energy and telecom, and there was a certain moment when I decided to sell it. I only wanted to focus on my telecom company, because I started to invest in fiber optic networks in the Netherlands. In 2016, I sold my engineering company and focused on the telecom company.
At that time, two things happened. I live in the Netherlands, and I’m from the Netherlands.It’s a beautiful country, but I didn’t believe in politics anymore. I didn’t know who to vote for. For me, that was a really difficult thing. I said to my wife, “Shall we move to the United States?
She said, “If you want to go, you have to go alone because I’m not coming with you.” So, I had to stay in my own country. My wife and I met when we were 16. I’m 56 now, so we have been together for 40 years. That’s a long time, so I decided to stay.
At exactly the same time, a private equity rep from London came to me and said, “I want to buy your shares of your telecom company.” At the same time, I met someone who was in a think tank and he said, “We are going to change our think tank into a political party.”
I said, “I will donate,” because he was a very young and fresh guy. He had a very clear vision about politics and I liked that. I said, “Okay, I will sponsor you so you can make your campaign.” After a couple of weeks he called me, “Can you help us? Can you help with the campaign in Rotterdam?”
I was never involved in politics, and I had no idea. But as an entrepreneur, you roll up your sleeves and you go. I said, “Okay, I will help you.” One thing led to another thing. At first it was the region of Rotterdam, then it was the region of South Holland.
Before I knew it, I was arranging everything for the whole party in the Netherlands. I was never meant to be in politics, but all these things happened at the same time. It’s so strange, but I don’t believe in coincidence. I had a feeling it had to be this way.
At a certain moment they asked me, “We want you on the list.” I said, “No, I’m not going on the list. That’s not my cup of tea.” But they convinced me and I did. That’s how I became a member of the European Parliament as an entrepreneur, knowing nothing about politics, but I just have common sense.
Mr. Jekielek:
What year did you enter the European Parliament?
Mr. Roos:
It started the moment that I sold my first cluster of companies in 2016.
Mr. Jekielek:
And you entered the European Parliament in what year?
Mr. Roos:
That was 2019.
Mr. Jekielek:
This is right before the pandemic.
Mr. Roos:
That was right before the pandemic. We had a very bright future before us.
Mr. Jekielek:
But then COVID hit. What happened? I understand the Netherlands lock downed pretty hard to start.
Mr. Roos:
Three times. When the first signals of COVID came in, I was pretty scared, because they told us 3 percent of the people are going to die. That 3 percent means one out of 33. That means that everyone knows someone who is going to die. I was really scared at that time. Because I was involved in politics at that time, I wrote a script on Covid for our political party.
My first intention was that we should close our borders immediately for two weeks to isolate the people who are already infected, and see who they are. But our government didn’t do that. They kept our borders open. Everyone came in and came out. It was also Carnival time in the Netherlands. We had big parties, and yes, the virus was everywhere. It took me three months before I discovered that it was a very vicious disease for vulnerable people, if you are old, or if you have obesitas.
Mr. Jekielek:
What they call comorbidities, yes.
Mr. Roos:
Then, I saw an interview with a doctor from the hospital in Rotterdam, which is the most respected hospital in our country. He said, “There are no healthy people in intensive care. There are only people with underlying conditions over there.” If that’s the case, that’s so much different, because I live a pretty healthy lifestyle, and I also taught that to my children. I work out four times a week.
I only eat natural food without all the E-numbers. We have all these E-numbers in Europe. I was not afraid anymore. I was not afraid for my children, but maybe for my parents. My parents were vulnerable because they were old.
But it changed my way of thinking about Covid. But the strange thing was that at that time when I was transforming to, “Okay, it’s not as bad as we thought it was,” our government was starting with lockdowns. After eight o’clock in the evening, people were not allowed to go outside, which was crazy. We were really locked up and small businesses were closed.
Let’s say only the essential businesses were open, which I didn’t understand. Because in the Netherlands we have coffee shops, we have liquor stores, and we have McDonald’s. But the gyms and everything where you can be healthy, they were closed. All the things that were the bad food and where all the bad stuff was for sale, they were open. They called them essential.
Mr. Jekielek:
Essential businesses.
Mr. Roos:
Essential businesses. That’s when my fight was starting.
Mr. Jekielek:
Let’s jump ahead a little bit. Right now we have the Department of Energy and also the FBI saying, “It’s most likely a lab leak that caused the origin of the virus.” A lot of people that talked about this early on in April of 2020 were attacked for this. What’s your reaction?
Mr. Roos:
It was most likely that it was created. There is the gain-of-function research, and it was Wuhan where it started. There is the lab, it’s called the Wuhan Lab, and the virus is the Wuhan virus. I’m not a specialist in that. But using common sense, I thought it was pretty obvious.
Mr. Jekielek:
What was it like in the Netherlands about this question? Were people asking or talking about it or not?
Mr. Roos:
Yes. That’s interesting because in the Netherlands we have a lady, Marion Koopmans, who’s a virologist. She was sent to Wuhan to find out if it was from the lab or it was from the market. I remember the day that she moved to Wuhan to do the investigations, and I think it was on behalf of the WHO.
I had a feeling the moment she arrived that she had concluded it’s from the market. It was very fast. President Trump always said, “It was created over there.” If President Trump says something, the Left is always the opposite. Maybe President Trump should have said it’s from the market. Then the Left would have said, “No, no, it’s from the lab.”
For me, that was a big problem, and there was no real debate. No one knew anything about this virus. During a situation where you do not know anything, you should bring all the specialists together and have a real debate. But there was only one narrative possible. It was only one narrative about the solutions. There was only one narrative about where it came from.
But what I also see in our committee, in the European Parliament, they cover things up. They invite the people with the right narrative. If I ask critical questions, besides that one to Ms. Small from Pfizer, they don’t give me a real answer.
Mr. Jekielek:
You want to get to the bottom of the real situation. That’s the purpose of the hearing
Mr. Roos:
Where does it come from? We also did some things very well, but what could we have done better? That’s what you want to know, and that’s also how I managed my companies. I had very good people, young people from the university, very technical, educated people. I said, “You can make mistakes because I don’t want you to be on 80 percent of your knowledge. I want you to go to 110 percent.”
“Of course, you make mistakes. We all are human. The second time we must do better. The third time, I don’t want to see the same mistake, because then we will have a different discussion. If you don’t learn, maybe you should do something else.” That’s my way of thinking.
What we see now with this Covid narrative, it’s covering things up and it’s just not good. In the Netherlands, they give you all kinds of names. If I disagree with the energy transition, I am a climate denier. They have all kinds of names. In the Netherlands, they call you a wopie, some kind of anti-vaxxer or something like that.
Mr. Jekielek:
A wopie.
Mr. Roos:
A wopie, yes. For the majority of the people who are watching our national television and news programs, they make people with a different opinion look like fools on purpose to shut them down. And most people did.
Mr. Jekielek:
Most people shut down. Basically, they stopped because they were being attacked.
Mr. Roos:
Of course. Yes, you’re being attacked and most people have to work for a living.
Mr. Jekielek:
The term that comes to my mind is the heckler’s veto. It is the loud person who gets to decide the policy because they’re very loud, not because it’s reasonable or they’ve won the debate.
Mr. Roos:
There is no debate anymore on a lot of topics. People call you names to avoid any discussions. For me, it was very, very difficult because in politics, they cancel you if they can. To be honest, I don’t feel like a politician. I feel more like a representative of the people, but I don’t want to be in a position where I’m disqualified.
It was walking a very thin line. What can I say? What is not possible for me to say? Sometimes, you have to cross the line. Even people very, very close to me said, “Rob, you should shut up.” I said, “Sorry, but what’s going on right now, they are taking away the freedom of the people.” I thought that someone has to say it, and someone has to do it. But it was really, really difficult for me.
Sometimes people very close to me disagreed with me. You lost friends. I didn’t lose my family because my children believed in me, and my wife believed in me. It’s good if you have good support at home. The rest of the people can make their own choice.
Mr. Jekielek:
What about this whole question about the vaccines. The vaccines rolled out, and why did you become skeptical about their use?
Mr. Roos:
It was not about the vaccine itself. It’s not a vaccine. I call it an mRNA shot. They called it a vaccine on purpose because the word vaccine is accepted in society. This is a kind of marketing, so people will accept it much more easily. This is a completely new technology, but I’m not a specialist in that.
I was not against it. People should have their own choice. If you want to take the vaccine, it should be available. But if you don’t want to take the vaccine, that should also be respected. My biggest problem was that they pushed it on all of society. “You have to do it for your grandmother. You have to do it for your grandfather, and for the people around you.”
Mr. Jekielek:
I want to check this. One of the very powerful narratives was, “If you don’t do this, you’ll kill grandma.”
Mr. Roos:
That was the thing.
Mr. Jekielek:
This was the same in the Netherlands?
Mr. Roos:
Yes, that was the same in the Netherlands. In the whole of Europe, in Italy, people above 50 should take the vaccine, otherwise they would not be able to make a living anymore. They were not allowed to go to work. They took away all the human rights of these people. It was disgraceful.
I was not against the vaccines. My parents said, “Rob, we think we are going to take the so-called vaccine.” I said, “I think it’s a wise thing to do.” At that time, I didn’t know about the side effects of the vaccines, but my father was very vulnerable. My mother was in a better condition. I said, “If that’s your choice, then it’s your choice.”
But to my children, my daughter was 24 and my son was 19 at that time, I said, “Please don’t, it’s new. We do not know what the long-term effect of this new way of medicine is and what it’s doing with our body.” For me, I made the decision; I don’t take it, I go to the gym, and I eat healthy. I made a risk-analysis for myself, and I’m not in that group.
Mr. Jekielek:
At high risk.
Mr. Roos:
At high risk. Yes, that was the thing. I was not even allowed to enter the parliament anymore. That’s how strong the narrative was, and that was my biggest problem. It was not the vaccine because I’m not a medical doctor. I cannot judge that. But on human rights they divided society and they took away the freedom of the people. That was my point to fight for.
Mr. Jekielek:
The thing that got you the world’s attention was that you were talking about the vaccines themselves, not the choice about transmission. How did that come about?
Mr. Roos:
I was talking about the vaccines because of the narrative, “You do it for all of society, you do it to protect.” That’s what all the governments in Europe, the United States, New Zealand, and Australia were saying. I wanted to know, when I asked this question of Ms. Small from Pfizer, if it was tested.
As I told you, I used common sense. At that time we had Omicron, and I saw that everyone who was fully vaccinated and even had a booster, the more shots that you had, the easier it was to be infected again. I knew the answer already, and I also had some papers of the Canadian doctors. I asked the same questions to Moderna and AstraZeneca, and they made a work-around. They didn’t answer my questions.
In the parliament, we had an issue with Pfizer, because Mr. Bourla and Mrs. von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, exchanged text messages. The New York Times asked for transparency, “What’s in the text messages?” It was about the contracts. The contracts for Pfizer, I estimated were at 35 to 40 billion Euros. The total contracts of the European Union was 72 billion euros to buy vaccines. They bought 10 vaccines for every person in the European Union.
It’s a huge amount of taxpayers money, and we wanted to have Mr. Bourla in our committee. Transparency, that’s what it’s all about. Mr. Bourla didn’t want to come. He sent Ms. Small. We have a team from all kinds of groups from the greens to the socialists, people who have different ideas on politics. But on this issue we had the same thoughts. We were exposing this for the whole week, saying, “Mr. Bourla, you have to come to our committee to bring transparency.”
It was on social media, so there was a lot of pressure. But Mr. Bourla said, “I’m not coming.” There was a lot of press behind me. Then, it was my time to ask the question, and I had already asked these questions to AstraZeneca and Moderna without an answer.
I had a different approach this time. There was a lot of pressure on Ms. Small. I started my question in Dutch about transparency, and then I switched to English and asked, “Was the Pfizer vaccine tested on stopping the transmission before it entered the market?” Then she gave me a real answer.
Mr. Roos:
Was the Pfizer COVID vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the market? If not, please say it clearly. If yes, are you willing to share the data with this committee? And I really want a straight answer, yes or no, and I’m looking forward to it. Thank you very much.
Ms. Small:
Regarding the question around, “Did we know about stopping the immunization before it entered the market?” No. We had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market.
Mr. Roos:
At that moment, I realized that this is a game changer. I immediately texted it to my assistant, “This is a game changer.” Right after this interview, I also made this video with an intro and an outro. We put it online and it was crazy, it went so viral. Because everyone in the western world, I can speak for them I think, had the feeling they were fooled, really fooled by the governments.
That’s not what governments should do. They are chosen to serve the people, but they fooled the people. It was a false narrative. Of course, some people didn’t know, but there are really a lot of people who did know. They abused their power, because during a crisis, you can do all kinds of things that you normally are not able to do.
Mr. Jekielek:
Now, I’m imagining what might happen. The governments will say, “It’s actually big pharma that fooled us.”
Mr. Roos:
But that’s not true. There was a lot of media attention in the Netherlands about me that I was creating misinformation. Mr. Bourla also said, “Mr. Roos is giving out misinformation, because we never said it was tested on stopping the transmission.” But that was not my argument. My argument was that our governments said that.
Mr. Bourla could have said to our governments, “Listen, we didn’t test it on that. You better not push people to these vaccines with this argument.” He didn’t do that because there’s a lot of money involved, of course. Our governments, why didn’t they ask the same question that I did? Maybe they did, and maybe they knew. But if they didn’t know, they should have asked. I’m sure they knew, and they abused it.
Mr. Jekielek:
Are you trying to find out if this was already known at the government level?
Mr. Roos:
For me, it’s very difficult to do that research because I’m in the European Parliament, and this is on a national level. For example, here in the United States, Dr. Anthony Fauci many, many times said, “I am the science, and if you are vaccinated, the virus is a dead end.”
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
But they’re really criticizing science, because I represent science. That’s dangerous.
Mr. Roos:
He knew, or he’s not “the science.” I don’t believe in “the science.” Science should be questioned. Science that cannot be questioned is just propaganda. But of course, they knew.
Mr. Jekielek:
What happened after that? Suddenly, there is this revelation. How do your fellow European Parliament members and politicians respond?
Mr. Roos:
Yes, it was amazing. I received a lot of positive response, maybe 60 percent. But there was also a lot of negative response from the people who were in this narrative and who maybe felt fooled for all this time, but didn’t want to admit it. So, it was so nice. People of the cleaning service and people of the IT service in the European Parliament came to thank me, and that was really, really nice.
Other politicians, some of them, were really happy with the news. I was not able to enter the parliament and it was difficult to share because of the Green Pass. But think about that, you as a parliament that is representative of the people are not allowing in certain representatives because they have a different opinion on things. It’s a dangerous situation because now it’s the vaccine.
What’s the next situation, if you can exclude people with a different opinion in a parliament, which is the highest representation of democracy? I went to the court because if they want to fight, I will fight. I went to the court in Luxembourg, the European Court of Justice, to fight this exclusion. Three times a week I had to do a test because I had to show that I was not infected. The real thing was that I was the only one who could prove that I was not infected. My colleagues with the Green Pass, they entered the parliament sneezing and coughing.
I was infected with COVID in February 2021 in the parliament by my colleague who had entered the parliament and was infected, because people had this false feeling of safety. They went to bars and they went to the shops. For me, it’s very obvious that if you have symptoms, you stay at home. I think that’s the best thing to do.
But these people felt so safe because our government said, “You have a Green Pass, you are vaccinated, you can stand wherever you want. They were the ones who infected the rest of society. That’s why, in my opinion, the levels also kept on rising in the hospitals.
Mr. Jekielek:
There were some fact-checkers that came out in response to this whole situation. I want to just read you something. One fact-checker says, “Pfizer was always clear. It did not test whether the vaccines reduced the risk of transmission among already infected individuals. But the trial did show the vaccines reduced infection risk in the first place.”
Mr. Roos:
Yes. The narrative was, “If you are vaccinated, you reduce the amount of virus particles.” I don’t know if that’s the right word, but if you reduce the amount of virus particles, that’s how you reduce the spread of the disease. It was not my argument that Pfizer never said it. My argument was that our governments pushed people, while they knew it was just not true. Of course, Pfizer did not ever say it was not tested, but they knew they should have been honest about this. Our governments should have been honest about this.
Mr. Jekielek:
Some people have said that your actions have reduced the public trust in vaccines, and this is a problem. What’s your reaction?
Mr. Roos:
That’s not my fault, because they push the people. I just fight for the truth. I would just want to know what happened and try to learn from that. If there is less trust in vaccination, they should look in the mirror because they use false narratives. I’m really not against vaccination. I’m vaccinated for everything except this Covid vaccine. I didn’t take it because it’s so strange. I’m not a medical doctor. But you cannot have a vaccine for a virus if the virus is transmuting.
Mr. Jekielek:
It’s a mutating virus.
Mr. Roos:
Mutating. It’s my duty as a representative of the people to ask critical questions. That is my main duty, and that’s what I’m doing.
Mr. Jekielek:
How do you think there will be accountability, and where does the accountability fall? There seem to be a lot of players.
Mr. Roos:
There are two kinds of players. The people who pushed the narrative but didn’t really know, if they say, “Sorry, I was wrong.” It’s okay. We have to move on in life. But there are people who really know what they did was wrong. They should be held accountable. Here in the United States, you have Dr. Fauci, and I think he’s one of them. In the beginning, we had this great declaration, I forgot the name.
Mr. Jekielek:
Great Barrington Declaration.
Mr. Roos:
That one. There were a lot of scientists and medical specialists who tried to open the debate, and he really smashed it down with some emails. Personally, I make mistakes. I will make mistakes every day, but I try to learn from them. If I make a mistake, I will say, “Sorry, I will try to do better next time.” That’s what should also happen in politics, and also with these people.
But Dr. Fauci, he was busy covering up his mistakes, if they were mistakes, I don’t know. But we also have these people in the Netherlands, people on the top level who knew everything, but no matter what, they still pushed this narrative. They should be held accountable because it destroyed lives. It destroyed businesses. It divided families. We have spent so much money, so much money.
If you see the money that was printed during Covid in Europe, we had 800 billion Euros to support our economy. In the United States, it was also the same. We cannot let that go. We should never make that same mistake again for humanity, but also for our economy and for the small businesses. No, these people should be held accountable. These people should be held accountable.
Mr. Jekielek:
Here, you’ve probably been following the Twitter Files showing the collusion between government entities and Big Tech to censor these alternative narratives, like the Great Barrington Declaration people, Jay Bhattacharya, in particular. It’s likely something similar happened in European countries, I don’t know. I haven’t seen any evidence directly. What are your thoughts on this? Do you know anything about this?
Mr. Roos:
I’m so happy that Elon Musk took over Twitter, really. It is so necessary because I also had a hard time on social media. I got the last warning on my LinkedIn and they took it away from me. I had to hire a very expensive lawyer to get it back. They keep people stupid with Big Tech and the mainstream media. But big Tech played a significant role.
Of course, there is a lot of misinformation and a lot of conspiracy theories, but we also need a real debate. I believe in making people more resilient. I taught my children to be critical of everything they see and they read. That’s what we should also do in elementary schools. We should start teaching children to be critical thinkers.
That’s much better than a government that tries to keep away information from us. Our governments were also spreading misinformation like, “You do it for all of society, you do it for your grandparents.”They should be leading by example. But Big Tech played a major role.
The Twitter Files are very interesting. I recorded a video. I asked Elon Musk to come to the parliament and also show what our member states and the European Commission communicated with Twitter. I’m so curious. I have no idea, not yet.
I saw something where he announced that there is information coming. So yes, I’m very curious. We need to find out what happened. We need to learn. We need to know the truth. Now, I believe in the truth. The truth will always come out in the end.
Mr. Jekielek:
Any final thoughts as we finish?
Mr. Roos:
It’s a difficult fight, the fight for freedom. More people should do that. My thought is to please think critically. Don’t believe anything they say. Make up your own mind. If we want to have a real democracy, we should fight together. I hope the people learn from all of this because we have a lot of other issues.
For example, climate change, which is a real thing. The climate is changing, but it’s been changing for 4.5 billion years. Should we spend all this money to do things that really don’t have any effect on this result? There are no measurable results, but it’s also a part of taking away the freedom of the people.
We have a lot of things to do yet, but I hope that we can do it together, and that people start thinking critically and don’t believe everything that is said, because it’s the people who are really in power. If they go out for revolt and make the right choices, then we can create a real democracy.
Mr. Jekielek:
Rob Roos, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Mr. Roos:
It’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Mr. Jekielek:
Thank you all for joining Rob Roos and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.
_______________________________
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